My position on the 2% tax the SA captured part of
hey ya'll,
i would like to give my thoughts on the 2% tax. this might be long.
First, I AM A STUDENT at MSU.
Second, for the SA and the students it is said to represent, it was a great political move to get any share of the 2% tax of which is Starkville's (not the students or SA's money), much less 20%. how many cities or any government agency gives up tax money that is theirs and theirs alone, no matter how much "us" students say they deserve it and it should be rightfully theres. it just doesn't happen.
Third, what i do not agree about the 2% tax is 2-fold:
a) the 20% of the 2% tax was not earmarked to the SA for anything in particular by the city but i believe only to a general fund which may be in a separate account. the city should have attached strings to the money saying that it has to go to something that benefits directly both the city and students. For example, earmarking the money for things like conventions, funding a convention center, and university to city transit (like city/ university bus route with maybe 3 to 5 buses and 3 routes) would be great uses of the 2% tax. putting it in these things would greatly help and benefit both the city and students.
b) second, the money from the 2% tax is the city of Starkville's money and its people, not the students. repeat, I AM A STUDENT too. Its not my money and the SA and students, despite their rhetoric, have no claims to it. I don't see the SA/students requesting 20% of the tourism tax they pay in Northport,AL (telle country i believe) or from Tupelo or Jackson or Corinth (my town) or Biloxi or Columbus going to MSU students. and yes, it is the same thing. also, that money does help students b/c we use their hospital, their roads, their rec plex on lynn lane, their parks, their fire department, their police in town, etc. We should help pay for that and our tourist tax is way for us to do that. Plus money into Starkville benefits the students and the University b/c it helps Starkville grow which i think we would all like to see.
I have said my say. Take care, voice your comments, and you know i'm going to say it. Thats right. Vote DONKEY.
i would like to give my thoughts on the 2% tax. this might be long.
First, I AM A STUDENT at MSU.
Second, for the SA and the students it is said to represent, it was a great political move to get any share of the 2% tax of which is Starkville's (not the students or SA's money), much less 20%. how many cities or any government agency gives up tax money that is theirs and theirs alone, no matter how much "us" students say they deserve it and it should be rightfully theres. it just doesn't happen.
Third, what i do not agree about the 2% tax is 2-fold:
a) the 20% of the 2% tax was not earmarked to the SA for anything in particular by the city but i believe only to a general fund which may be in a separate account. the city should have attached strings to the money saying that it has to go to something that benefits directly both the city and students. For example, earmarking the money for things like conventions, funding a convention center, and university to city transit (like city/ university bus route with maybe 3 to 5 buses and 3 routes) would be great uses of the 2% tax. putting it in these things would greatly help and benefit both the city and students.
b) second, the money from the 2% tax is the city of Starkville's money and its people, not the students. repeat, I AM A STUDENT too. Its not my money and the SA and students, despite their rhetoric, have no claims to it. I don't see the SA/students requesting 20% of the tourism tax they pay in Northport,AL (telle country i believe) or from Tupelo or Jackson or Corinth (my town) or Biloxi or Columbus going to MSU students. and yes, it is the same thing. also, that money does help students b/c we use their hospital, their roads, their rec plex on lynn lane, their parks, their fire department, their police in town, etc. We should help pay for that and our tourist tax is way for us to do that. Plus money into Starkville benefits the students and the University b/c it helps Starkville grow which i think we would all like to see.
I have said my say. Take care, voice your comments, and you know i'm going to say it. Thats right. Vote DONKEY.
posted by mrholmes | 1:16 PM
13 Comments:
I know hardly anything about local and campus politics. But this is what I think about the 2% tax based on my limited knowledge. The 2% tax is not right. It is not right because it is an extra tax that is not needed. And any superfluous tax is not good. It is not right because it is aimed at the student population of MSU. It is unfair to take advantage of the limited resources of college students.
I dont think MSU should get any of the money because I dont think there should be an extra tax in the first place.
Please Matthew or anyone else enlighten me on why this is right or wrong! Because I would like to better understand the situation.
First of all, the 2% tax is not aimed at students of MSU. It is aimed at attracting and bringing in money for a city through tourism and is in pretty much in any city, at least it has been in all the ones I have lived in. Yes, college students at MSU (many of whom live in dorms) are more likely to eat out than regular Starkville citizens. Momma isn't there to cook anymore so they go eat out so they don't have to cook. The 2% tax is mainly directed at tourist like those coming to town from TN, AL, GA, KY, LA, AR, & SC or Oxford, Jackson, and Hattiesburg to bring money into the city to make it better and help cover the cost of extra police, roads, etc.
Now, MSU students mostly do not pay property taxes since they live on campus or pay rent. Therefore, they are getting alot from the city in roads, police, firefighters, hospitals, power, parks, rec plex, etc. without paying property taxes to support these services. Therefore, the money that students pay as part of the 2% restaurant & tourist tax go to help cover what they do not pay in property taxes. At least, that is my point of view of the 2% tax in relation to students.
Also, the 2% tax for tourism is only available if the MS state legislature allows the city to have it. Therefore, the city must specify what benefit the increased funds will bring. In Starkville, the creation of the Rec Plex on Lynn Lane and its continued expansion is the biggest benefit of the 2% tax to Starkville thus far. Before the Rec Plex, kids played on fields between the airport and coke plant where there were cracks big enough to break a kids ankle or leg. Looked like an earthquake zone.
Currently, the money is being used to expand the Rec Plex to include basketball courts, volleyball courts, and a Senior Center for the elderly. In Starkville, 20% has been earmarked to the MSU Student Association whether one agrees or not. (I personally think the city of starkville should keep it and invest it in a convention center or public transit in conjunction with the university.)
Basically, the purpose of the 2% tax is to provide the city with something that will enhance the city that it might otherwise not be able to afford (as schools, emergency, and roads take up most of the funding) like public transit, convention centers, rec plex, etc.
Me too, Healthy debate is awesome. Blogs are awesome. Maybe we should become the conservative vs. liberal opinion writers for Bulldog Beat, sort of like the Sunday Perspective section in the Clarion Ledger. The Bulldog Beat certainly needs opinion writers. A different debate topic each week. I think we could outduel Bogard and Ed. Maybe it could be a conversational debate piece. Opening statements, good debate, closing words. Sort of like Crossfire, but on paper.
MSU sports, conventions, little league tourneys, competitions are tourism for Starkville. And by having the 2% tax, it brings in a lot of funding for Starkville that the city could use. You even pointed that out in the characterization of the roads. Also, the Rec Plex is nice, but the parks like McKee clearly need renovations and remodeling. The city of Starkville doesn't have the Sanderson Center free to them like Students do. Also, if Starkville used the 2% tax to fund a convention center for it and the University, the amount/benefit of money brought in from it would clearly outduel the cost of the extra 2% tax. If it is on a university/city public transit system, that could save the city/students/university tons in road costs (increased capacity and wear & tear), fuel costs, pollution, etc.
If you hadn't noticed it, the city of Starkville lacks money. Eliminating the 2% tax would only cause property tax to increase. Also, the university could add a 2% tax on food and such on campus to put in such things like a convention center or public transit or paving all parking lots. Maybe they could figure out a way not to charge it to those using MoneyMate so that only visitors pay the 2% tax to improve life at MSU.
Taxes aren't a bad thing if used in the right way. Refusal to raise them could hurt Mississippi and Starkville in the long run. Just check out the education system and highways that keep losing funding.
If you want to talk about a waste of tax dollars, how about us funding every business that wants to move to MS like beef processing and steel. Its the business's job to make money. They don't need incentives to do it. They shouldn't receive tax breaks from the state just b/c they are big. We educate the populace, provide quality infrastructure, enforce laws, and provide for medical care. We are not a loan bank or donor bank for businesses. That is the job of banks & investors and the business to take care of themselves.
Matt,
I suggest you check your facts a little better before making bold proclamations.
1. The 2% tax during the first 10 year cycle was split among the Convention and Visitors Bureau, Parks and Recreation, and Oktibbeha County Economic Development authority. None of those entities are part of the city of Starkville. They are all independent groups who jockeyed for funding just like the SA did. NEVER has 2% money funded roads, police, fire, etc. The CVB uses the money to sponsor events like Old Main Music Festival, Cotton District Arts Festival, etc. In addtion, they spend much of their money on advertising in travel magazines, etc. in an attempt to attract tourists to Starkville. Parks and Rec obviously built the Sportsplex and does other valuabe recreation things with the money. OCEDA uses the money to attract business and industry to the area through, among other things, building industrial parks and the like. These things seem, to me, to be functionally similar to the ways students will spend the money in the future with the oversight of administrators.
B. How many students do you know that use the Sportsplex on Lynn Lane or any other parks in Starkville? Yes, some do, but community members use the Drill Field and other campus areas that our tuition keeps vibrant.
C. How much of the 2% money is generated by the university and its students? I would venture a guess that about 80% of the revenue comes from students or football weekends. 20% is a quarter of that estimation.
D. The money does have strings attached to it. The university must use the money in a way that benefits the entire community. The university must present an annual check-up report to the board to ensure that this is being done.
E. The money does not belong to the SA. The money has been entrusted with Dr. Lee, our CEO. He demanded that 100% of it be spent on student-related activities. The athletic department would have a valid argument that they deserve some of it, but Dr. Lee fought that and sided with students. The SA was charged with devising a fair and flexible plan for spending the money.
F. The university and the SA have taken steps to ensure that the money is spent on things that benefit the community. We have also determined that these should be, for the most part, things that generate more 2% money. Concerts, speakers, performing arts, the Night Route all contribute to people spending money in Starkville.
G. We are terribly underfunded. Please name another univerisity of our size and stature that has as pathetic a lineup of entertainment, speakers, and activities. You can't. In the 90's university administrators raped the budgets of groups like Music Makers and CAB. They haven't recovered. Music Makers budget fell from about $120,000 to $12,000 in that period. We went from being the premeire concert location in Mississippi to the largest void of culture I know of. That's why Bulldog Bash was started. It is funded by SA fundraising, not hand-me-down money. It is an attempt to fill that void. To say that bringing Tina Turner, Bruce Springsteen, Willie Nelson, Earth Wind and Fire, etc. etc. to Starkville in the 80's wasn't a blessing to the economy and attractiveness of this town is ridiculous.
H. As Charlie said, you pay property taxes through rent. Did you think your landlord was paying your taxes for you because he likes you?
I. Starkville has some of the lowest property taxes in Mississippi. How is it supposed to be one of the state's cultural hubs without some extra money? Who can better spend money on cultural attractions than a university community? Do you not think that the university is responsible enough with the city's money to spend it wisely?
J. The convention center will be paid through a bond issue, which means a hike in property taxes, not tourisim taxes.
K. What do the communities you listed spend their tourism dollars on? Parks, Advertising, Entertainment. There is no better park in Starkville than MSU. There is no better advertisement in Starkville than MSU. There is no better entertainment in Starkville than MSU.
Yes, debate is fun, especially when you bring facts to the table and leave speculation at home.
Love ya Matt,
Adam
Adam i love that you called out Holmes, way to go my man!
Telle and Shady, my responses will be out by tonight. by the way, what kind of name is shady. are you hiding in the shade or what? just curious. my apologies if that is really your name. if not, sign your real name next time. gives you credence. notice how i sign my name. below are even sites with numerous examples. if unsure of your name, ask your friends. they should know it.
http://edwardsanders.blogspot.com/
http://politicsonthego.blogspot.com
To Telle:
First of all, the point of blogs, especially mine for me to voice my opinion on issues that i care about. Let me say this again for you. My blog is my opinion. It is not nor will ever be a newspaper, a magazine, a reference book, a government document, etc. Thought i would clear that up with you.
Second, you are right. I should know a little bit more in depth but i don't. i am learning though as we spoke some on this last night. Now, this is one of my main points. When out campaigning this week on the drill field, most students didn't even know State was getting part of the starkville 2% tax. Why, with SA elections going on, are current SA officials not out encouraging students to vote, telling them what all the SA does, and why it is important for them to vote? It isn't endorsing candidates to educate them about the SA. I mean the SA is out in the city. why not do it on campus in our personal elections. maybe we could get 50% plus turnout instead of celebrating record turnout of less than 30%.
Third, you say "NEVER has 2% money funded roads, police, fire, etc." What you forget to mention is never referred to past terms, not the future. 2% money could be used for education, public roads, infrastructure, etc. And when it comes down to it, I believe it is more important that money goes into Starkville city schools and build better roads and city infrastructure to attract industry than to pay for concerts. If i had the choice between funding schools and free concerts, the choice is schools. Besides, why can't people pay $3 each for Bulldog bash and a night of entertainment. It is the entertainment industry and i think people will pay $3 for bulldog bash.
Fourth, if we want a 2% tax to go to us, the university should establish its own 2% tax for the food court and other food areas and university memorabilla at book mart, book store, and university printing. starkville's 2% tax should go to starkville. just b/c students eat in starkville does not mean the university has the right and should own the 2% tax. the city giving it to the university and SA was a privilege, not a right. Thats fact.
Fifth, it doesn't matter whether the students use the rec plex or not or the city parks. if they want to, they are their for them to use. the city parks are for the city, not the university but the university and students are welcome to use the rec plex (i do) or city parks (i do). they are easily accesible for students.
Sixth, i know students pay property taxes if they live in starkville. that is if. many students live in residence halls or in greek housing, not in starkville apartments. you know that and probably can give me that number within 100 people off the top of your head. those who live in starkville or go to starkville (every msu student does) benefits from 2% tax spent in starkville. it ain't like you inferred in that they spend "80%" of the 2% tax and don't get anything. they do. its their choice if they want to use it.
Seven, i have said several times that i advocate the 2% tax being set in a separate fund to be used for both the city and university. for example, expanding the night rooute to a daily route in and around town and campus. or maybe used to support funding a convention center that the city and university both want and can both use. as i said earlier, i'll take a convention center or daily public transit over a free bulldog bash. people can just pay $3 to go to bulldog bash and with 20,000 plus there, that is $60,000 plus donations and fundraising. and i can pretty much guarantee that students and citizenry will pay $3 for bulldog bash and it will even lead to a bigger bulldog bash while saving money for more important things like night to daily transit and a convention center.
think about the seven points and let me know what u and ya'll think. and yes, debate is good and beneficial.
1. Blogs are for opinion. That's why I stated my opinion on your blog. I'll restate it. You posted about the 2% tax without checking your facts enough.
2. City elections will impact students more than this year's SA elections. We have 12 candidates to bug students about SA elections. I didn't see Josh out there encouraging students to vote last year. He didn't have to because the candidates worked their tails off. I'm actually busy serving students. When I was campaigning, my campaign promises did not include: "I will make sure I talk to students on the Drill Field to make them vote." I am fullfilling promises I actually made like: "I'm going to make sure the student voice is heard in the city." Who else is going to organize students for the city elections? The way the SA can get people to the campus polls is not by bugging them, but rather by performing and showing them results that reveal something about the SA's importance to them. I don't know what SA initiative has impacted students more in the entire history of MSU than getting them to the polls in 2001.
3. Tourism taxes, in nearly every instance, are used for quality of life initiatives. Starkville's property tax is very low. It's school tax is pretty high. If you want Starkville to do meat & potatoes improvement, they should raise property taxes. Property taxes are more steady while sales taxes are influenced more by the economy. It's silly to say that you would choose schools over concerts. Who wouldn't. The point is that funding of concerts and speakers improves the quality of life in a community and brings in dollars from outside the city limits. An improved quality of life means city growth. City growth means more tax revenue (property and sales) for schools. City growth also means jobs, higher land value, more college-educated citizens, and tons of other things. All these things mean better education in a community. We have to look into the future rather than being so short-sighted, Matt. You can't charge $3 for Bulldog Bash. How would you suggest we regulate entrance into the Cotton District? Should we build a forcefield? Bulldog Bash has meant so much to our students. It has brought new students to Starkville. It makes a place for a reputation for being boring exciting and sexy. More MSU students drawn to Starkville means more taxes generated for schools...and more 2% money for more concerts.
4. I agree that the university could create a sales tax. I'm not sure about the legality of it, but I do know it will come out of your pockets. The city giving it to the university is a privilege, but I promise you it's not just because our city officials are philanthropic. It's because students vote. What is a right? Students also would have had the ability to come out in droves to vote the tax down last year. That is a right. It would have failed had the university not gotten a piece of the pie. No, there was not a a vote on the tax, there sure as heck would have been if MSU hadn't gotten a piece. Talk about a petition drive.
5. Again, Starkville could have used the money to build a 100 foot statue of Edward Sanders, but if the citizens don't like it, they can rise up and stop the tax. Students are citizens. They made a demand. The city saw the light, and were very happy to help students out. Democracy.
6. 14 of the 20 Greek houses are on Starkville property. They do pay property taxes. Check your facts. Again, Starkville can use the money how they want and tell citizens it's their fault if they don't "use it." But the citizens can tell the city, through democracy, that their decision to build a 100-foot statue of Edward Sanders was a mistake.
7. How much of the 2% money will go into Bulldog Bash each year? Maybe a few thousand dollars. Bulldog Bash's primary funding source is private sponsorships, not public money. How much does it cost to operate a transit system? Millions per year maybe? How much will a Convention Center cost? Tens of millions? How much money does the 2% tax currently generate annually? Not even a million. You are comparing apples to oranges. Really big apples to really tiny oranges. Not a real argument. Besides, as I told you the other night, public transit funding will come partially from ARC grants. Why would we spend 2% money right now on public transit when, in a year, we will be getting hundreds of thousands annually from the ARC? Advertising can offset even more of the local cost. Almost as much of the 2% money will go to the Night Route as goes to Bulldog Bash.
Those are my seven points. I thought about them. They are what I think.
To Telle and others:
For the reader's convenience, the points refer to MSU SA President Adam Telle's points immediately above this one.
Point # 1: I stated my opinion, not facts or theory. I'm glad you stated your opinion and gave facts. Thats why i posted and encouraged others to post. As I have said, I didn't have all the facts and wanted to learn them. Thanks for presenting them.
Point # 2a: First, city elections do have a greater impact on students than SA election. And as I have told you earlier, at least in person and over the phone, I think the SA is doing a tremendous job in encouraging students to register to vote and in April, sending information packets with all the candidates and positions in that ward. I'll be there going door to door with you and maybe we can get a R to walk with a D to each door(hopefully i ain't killed for saying that) to emphasize the importance of voting.
Point # 2b: I believe whole heartedly and without a doubt that you Mr. Telle work extremely hard for the SA, University and Students. Check your position on SA dream team and what i wrote. You probably lack the full help and teamwork you deserve. I do encourage you to use and encourage other SA Exec and Cabinet to use ya'lls new blog/website to tell people about the 2% tax and other student issues instead of just event announcements. I know more people see that blog than mine and it would be a very useflu tool for the incoming SA of 2005-2006.
Point # 3: Bigger areas than the Cotton District and Bulldog Bash have had restricted access for a night. It wouldn't be all that difficult, just needs a litte creativity and the benefits of an extra $60K for SA and students are well worth the thought. Logistics people are experts at that stuff. Also, thanks for believing Starkville schools are more important than funding entertainment (yes, alot of it is gained through fundraising as you have pointed out). I'm all for entertainment and concerts, i just don't think it should be subsidized and i doubt i'm the only one.
Point # 4: It is not illegal, you just have to get it passed by the state legislature like Starkville and Corinth's do. And you and the SA are good lobbyists/unions as you have said several times. I'm sure the legislature would see the point. And i know the 2% tourism tax would have passed with or without student support. It is needed for the city and only an idiot in Starkville and our University would have voted against it. Yes, IDIOT.
Point # 5: By the way, I never said i was against the University getting part of the 2% tax. I just think it should go into only things that benefit both the city and university for more than a week.
Point # 6: That means 14 of 20 greek houses would send their kids to starkville schools, use starkville sewer and utilities, police and fire, roads, etc. Thats what property taxes are for. As for the other 6, they don't pay property taxes so their 2% tax pays for the roads and police and fire they use. Take out the 2% tax and there would be less money for these things as things would be cut.
Point # 7: How many people know about the ARC grant attempt? Exactly, very few. Put it on the SA blog and get students to sign petition showing their support and need for it. As i said, more people read ya'lls than mine. A few thousand into Bulldog Bash, no matter how small, still equals government subsidized entertainment. That is a fact. And yes, you are right, public transit and convention centers cost more than $200K per year. Every dollar counts. Right now, Starkville has neither and needs both.
Again, I would advise you to copy what you post on my blog on SA's blog. Maybe a little rewording. Split two apples with one letter.
P.S., my blog easily has longer comments and posts than any other.
Heres my short opinion on the matter:
If MSU was not here would Starkville have this tax? How many other towns the size of Starkville have a food tax? Of course its aimed at students. Its like a tourism tax at hotels, its a way of getting money from those who mostly have no say in the matter.
yes starkville would have the 2% tax. corinth, ms has the 2% tax and it has less than 15,000 and no college along with numerous other cities. it ain't just to tax students. students can eat at home or in restaurants as well as anyone else. i'm a student and i can---this might surprise you---cook my own meal if i wanted and even do. dorms even have kitchens if you wanted to cook. you don't have to go eat in restaurants but you choose too. same with starkville residents. sometimes they eat at home and sometimes they eat out.
as far as the tourism tax goes on hotels, it helps overcome the cost of having to have extra police to make sure tourist are safe and it is the benefit for the city to capitalize on tourism. its not at just students and the city money goes to help students as well as average citizens.
seriously, just because it does not go directly into SA or University funds does not mean the money does not help students. in fact, the parks that part of the 2% tax help support are open to anyone and the rec plex is used by college students, high school students, 3-12 kids, etc.
Wow, I did not know Corinth did that. Thats surprising.
I would still guess that the majority of this tax money comes from students. I think considering how much money comes into Starkville from students that is perfectly fair for MSU to get part of this tax back.
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